'I don't hate Obasanjo, we both played politics' - Fayose

Former governor of Ekiti State, Mr. Ayodele Fayose tells ADEOLA BALOGUN and NONYE BEN-NWANKWO why he appears to be enmeshed in diverse controversies

Have you settled with the PDP leaders in Ekiti State over the use of consensus arrangement to select the party candidate for the governorship election? In a contest, there are so many angles to it; so many intrigues, and so many interests and you won't blame anybody. It is the way Nigerian politics is structured. Even a man, who is jobless today will tell you he is a politician and he could equally tell you that he is a governorship aspirant. Sometimes, people that manage the affairs of the party will want to first fill their stomach; they don't put the interest of the party first. They will tell you one story 10 times differently and their actions and inactions would obviously give them out as people who want to eat at the expense of the survival of the corporate entity which is the party.

So, talking about consensus, selection or arrangement, whatever name you call it apart from the constitutional provision, it will not work. Nigeria's democracy is about 15 years old, I will not accept anything unconstitutional. I am not in politics for the fun of it. I am there to assert the truth; to express myself and to do exactly what is right. Nobody is funding my election; nobody is giving me money. I have not taken a dime or contract from anybody, so there is no way I will accept or submit to anything different from due process. Fifteen years of stable democracy, we must all be ready to face it squarely and sometimes those people who want to impose are always our albatross. So, let me make it clear, when people talk of consensus or selection, I pretend as if I don't hear. I have told the chairman clearly that it will not work.

You accused the state party chairman of demanding a Range Rover from you, is that true? Events or issues on this matter have come up on several occasions and as a leader of the party and a former governor, you don't say it all. Your mission is not to kill the party. If I start talking about the chairman, I will be giving him unnecessary mileage. So, it is most unnecessary whether he demanded or he denied demanding or I have accused him wrongly, events have overtaken that. So, let us face the fact. Some said they want zoning, it is a legitimate agitation; some said they want consensus, it's their own position. Whether it will work, how it will work, the possibility is another story.

But if you go into the primaries and you lose… I will even like all of the other aspirants, with all due respect, to come together as one and face me. In fact, they signed a communiqué sometime ago stating that they all supported my purported suspension and consensus but I have said to all of them, they should all come together as one and put all their resources in one person; with all due respect, I will still defeat them.

Is it that you have the money, power or what? It is not about money. I left the PDP for five and a half years, I came back and won the congress. Forget about who is betraying who, I defeated all of them.

Why are you always jumping from one party to the other? That is the unfortunate thing about Nigerian politics. When you are oppressed, you must find a way to fight back. Let me give you an instance even though I really don't want to dabble into APC matter. Opeyemi Bamidele said he wanted to contest and that he should be given the right to contest the primaries, and the party said no. So, if he can win election and because some party leaders say no, he should bury his future?

What if he is the person Ekiti people want? So let us realise that most of our leaders want their will, not the will of God. All what I am trying to say is not about ideology or not believing in your party, but we should not murder people's future. We should stop this idea of this is the position of the leadership. As good as the position of the leadership could be, remember they were at one time in stages like this when they wanted to find their feet. What if they could not find their feet at that time, would they be claiming leadership (today?) My position is very clear about it, when you move to another party, a party is germane. If you want to move from Lagos to Ekiti and you cannot walk, you need a vehicle to get there.

So, it is true that you are part of the problem in Ekiti? I will always be part of Ekiti problem; I must be, either positive or otherwise. I have told some of the people, I am somebody you can't ignore; you ignore me at your own peril and that is the truth. In terms of party politics in Ekiti today, it's not easy to ignore me. Anybody can tell me to go to blazes but let them try and ignore me.

Maybe it is because you cannot be trusted. It's not about trust. Why would you set up a media house and look for eggheads to manage it? I am an egghead in Ekiti. When you are good on your job, people will look for you. If I enter Ekiti today, seven years after leaving office in the most controversial circumstances, people still love me. A lot of people have been governor for eight years, they are no longer known or remembered by their people.

But Niyi Adebayo, your predecessor, said all those popularity claims are false. Niyi Adebayo is saying the truth. The reason for saying so is because he is speaking for his own candidate and then he is speaking from the position of the opposition. It is important to note that I defeated him; history cannot change that fact.

But he said you don't have any legacy left in Ekiti… He can talk like that; do you want him to be praising me? He is not supposed to praise me. Adebayo is a gentleman, I respect him a lot but he cannot forget the fact that I defeated him and he cannot like me for that.

He said you didn't win any election but that you were rigged into the position. I agree with you; I don't like to argue that with people. Life is about your position and the way you see things but whether it is right or wrong, I remember that I defeated Adebayo and he did not challenge my victory; he only challenged my name. I am the only person that defeated an incumbent governor without any recourse to court. And that is why among the PDP aspirants in Ekiti, I have three things others don't have: I am a former governor; I am the only one that has touched lives directly or indirectly and I am the only one with experience.

But at a time you said you worked for Kayode Fayemi to become Ekiti State governor. I did not say so, it is public knowledge. You can lie but history doesn't change. I did not work for Fayemi, I brought Fayemi to that stool. Somebody can turn out to be unappreciative of what you did for him but what goes around must come around. This is a natural law; you cannot use money or power you have acquired through the backdoor to build an enduring legacy. The issue remains that Fayemi today might not pick my call, deny that I worked for him; he might tell you that he didn't have any agreement with me, but conscience is an open thing.

What was the agreement you had with him? This is also public knowledge. We met and agreed that the ACN (now in APC) would not field anybody for senatorial election and secondly they agreed that I would be given one third of the local governments to put my people there. But let me tell you, I am glad they didn't keep the agreement because I would have been part of the failing government in Ekiti State. Today, Fayemi himself knows that he is running a failed government; he is no longer popular. Forget about propaganda and pictures in the media; let me reassure you, I don't believe too much in propaganda because beneath the propaganda is the truth.

Whatever any good anybody does for you, courtesy, fairness and equity demand you reciprocate the goodness. Apart from that, even if I didn't help Fayemi, I am a former governor; he will be a former governor one day. Fayemi went to the state House of Assembly and told them not to pay me my gratuity and entitlement, claiming that I did not finish my term. As I said, Fayose is a former governor today. Fayemi went as far as removing former governor Oni's picture from the roll call of former governors of the state, saying that Oni was not known to law. If he removed Oni's picture, why didn't he remove all the roads that Oni built? Fayemi should remember that the unborn child will still be governor of Ekiti; what we sow today will germinate tomorrow.

Why are you always fighting people? You fought the Ayo Arises of this world, even Segun Oni you are talking about now. Power is about struggle. When you say somebody is fighting, do we say Fayemi is not fighting when he went to attack Opeyemi Bamidele? People can brand you any name they like. I remember during the rerun when I was working for ACN, I wasn't fighting that time; I was a good boy. But now when I want power back, I am fighting everybody.

I was wrongfully removed from office and as a result, I believe I can still make it and I will make it. I believe I can still be restored through the votes of the people, so I still have to struggle. And in the course of struggle, people may perceive you as fighting. If you are not important, they will not be shouting your name. They are shouting my name. if I am not important, why are they fighting me too? Why don't they leave me alone? It is because I am an issue they have to deal with. I am not a pushover. When you are blunt and frank, people will give you names. I am a very frank person, I don't lie; I don't play to the gallery; I want to tell people the way it is. I know people don't say that in politics but not saying it has put Ekiti where we are today.

You said you were wrongly removed from office.Was Obasanjo the person that removed you? There is no point mentioning names seven years after. I am out of office, either rightly or wrongly; what is important is that I want to go back and I am making efforts to go back.

Is it because you don't like being pushed around that you hate Obasanjo so much? Let me tell you, I don't hate Obasanjo. Obasanjo played politics and I too played politics. The fact still remains that Obasanjo has made his mark and I have made my own mark in my little way. If we don't put all this behind, we won't get anywhere. There is no way I can wish Obasanjo away and there is no way Obasanjo can wish me away, even in Ekiti politics. Even if Obasanjo doesn't want me back and God wants me back, what can he do? So, if I become governor today, I will still go and look for him because he is a statesman.

But you wanted to beat him up sometime ago. Well, what you are talking about is now history; let's put more energy into the future. Obasanjo remains a leader to be associated with and whatever you call him, he has done his bit. There is no way we will not fight; we fought; we reconciled and we moved forward.

You are angling to become governor again, have all the court cases against you been cleared? Are you saying that a man is guilty before the courts say so? The law says the man is assumed innocent until the courts prove otherwise. I have never been absent in court; I didn't run away.

But can you clear the air concerning the poultry project that went awry? There is no air to clear. When you charge a man to court, the man is not supposed to be talking about the case; it is subjudice. So, I can't be talking about the case but the fact remains that a man remains innocent until otherwise proved. But let me remind you, the current governor of Abia State was in EFCC net until the day he was sworn in. Atiku was facing charges when he contested; Iyiola Omisore was in Agodi prison for murder when he won election as senator. I want to tell you that the president of Kenya is currently facing a criminal case at the international court; so let us throw away all those things. They are only political tools in the minds of weaklings who are afraid of the political will and strength of the opposition. I stand to tell you again that if it is the will of God that I will contest this election, nothing is stopping me. And don't forget that I contested senate election even when the case was going on and nothing stopped me.

Even for the senate election, Adebayo said nobody rigged you out but that Ekiti people rejected you. It's his opinion; he cannot be praising me because I defeated him. A woman that was driven out from the house would not have kind words for the man. Adebayo has an axe to grind with me but one thing that is clear is that history will put it down that I was the one that defeated him.

We learnt that you did not finish from the polytechnic in Ibadan. Are you a dropout? I was taken to court over this same issue when I became governor and the court ruled that it was all falsehood. I have defeated an incumbent before and I have the key to do that again. Like a man said, 'Ayo Fayose, since they did not allow you to spend your four years, nobody will be able to do anything again.' But I said it is not like that; it is only that people love me.

It is believed that your popularity claim is false, that you only possess nuisance value. Yes, nuisance is part of the game. There are a lot of politicians in Abuja, they are nuisance but they are the ones 'chopping' our money. The rascality here and there, what of people coming out to say they are going to bring Nigeria down? Are they not nuisance? If a nuisance stays in front of your house now and says you are not coming out, what can you do?

But today in Ekiti, apart from the incumbent governor who is likely to run for second term, the only name that is so visible for the governorship post is Opeyemi Bamidele; are you saying you can stand him in an election? I am not going to talk about MOB; I respect all our leaders. Niyi Adebayo is a wonderful leader in his own right; he has done his bit. Segun Oni is a wonderful leader. Forget about politics, everybody that has served even if it is for one hour, has tried. To coordinate people and lead them is not easy. I have a lot of respect for Adebayo, if we see now, we will greet each other. MOB too is contributing where he is.

Would you say that you did well for Ekiti people as governor? That is not good in my mouth; it is left for other people to say that. Forget about politics, go and ask from those that benefitted from me or Oni or Adebayo or Fayemi, the local people. They are the people that can tell you who did well but I can say that I opened up Ekiti. I gave it a beginning that they can never forget.

Can you describe how you were taken away from the government house in a car boot as governor? Again, if we start opening one thing, it will lead to another. The fact remains that in the course of survival, you do so many things as long as you are alive. As long as you still have opportunity, it will make you a better person. What happened to me during my removal is most regrettable. During the Obasanjo regime, governors were hunted; that was his style but things have changed today. Not because the governors cannot be hunted but because democracy has grown stronger. The people are conscious of their rights. Before, no court could remove any governor but today, governors are being removed so easily. Maybe if I had been wiser, I would not have been removed from office.

Was it because governors were being hunted during Obasanjo regime that made you not to greet him when you met even as an elder? Let me put it this way; enough has happened and the best way to live life especially when you still need people is to equally remember that what you say and don't say matter. Whatever it is today, Obasanjo remains a leader; we have had our differences but we still have to move on.

But you didn't greet him that time even as a leader from Yoruba. That is not the issue here; whether I greeted him or I didn't greet him, that has been overtaken by events. Everybody has the right to reaction but the fact remains that those reactions, either rightly or wrongly have come. If I had overdone it, I am not a perfect person. Obasanjo too today would have made one or two mistakes in life and I am sure that in his own closet, as strong and powerful as he may be, he must have reflected on that. But above all, he is an elder statesman and we will continue to appreciate him.

When people raised doubts about your true father in those days, would you regard that as the greatest political war anyone could fight against you? If my father is not my true father, I was born into this world. I have a mother and whoever made love to my mother; that is between them. That is not an issue with me; I have made a good name and I am an asset to anybody that gave birth to me for being a governor. At least, they cannot deny that I have a mother. But thank God my father came to court to clear all this and in law, whatever is settled is settled. But the fact remains that it was all made up story.

Even in Igboland, if a man does not come out to claim a child, the mother gives her father's name to him. Does it mean that child is a bastard? Even if you call me a bastard, I don't mind because somebody put me in her stomach and I live and now I am an asset to my mother. My mother is very happy to give birth to me whether it is for the right man or the wrong man, it is not important. But thank God, my father came to court and sorted that out. But it is stupid to call someone a bastard; somebody who has come out to be somebody in life; I would go and claim that child and apologise even if he is not my own.

But how does your wife cope with a man who is a direct opposite of her? That woman is a gift of God, a rare gift of God and I want to tell you that I owe everything to God and her. I will not deny the fact that I am tough and that is the way we are as a family but God has a way of keeping a balance. My wife is exceptional; even when she was the governor's wife, she was not a loud person. I want to tell you that I will marry that woman again and again. If you are fighting me, one problem you will have is that my wife will finish you with prayer. Have you not noticed that all the battles I have had for the past seven years, if it had been somebody else, they would have overcome me? If my wife says I should slap you now, I will slap you seven times and nothing will happen. If people are giving me problems now, she will be telling me to send prayer requests, she will be on her knees nonstop 24 hours. As I am speaking to you, she is on her knees. When she wakes up in the morning, she will hold my two legs and my hands and she will be praying and I might be snoring away. You study my life, when people give me hassles, one way or the other, the storm will just go down. My wife will tell me that those people are wasting their time. I have seen it happen several times; people would give me problems and they ended up with problems because my wife had told me they would pay dearly for it.

But you beat this wonderful woman, why? That is a reckless question and I can not answer it; how can I beat my wife?

At least it was reported. I don't know and I wonder that you are reading such junk papers; I cannot answer such question. How can a responsible man who is governor beat his wife? You know in Nigeria, when people are not punished for certain things, they continue to say it all because they give them silly money to destroy images. I can't be defending what my dogs are saying. I can't bring my wife down to such level; how can I beat such a virtuous woman?

Supposing you are schemed out and fail to clinch the ticket, are you ready to jump to another party to achieve your aim? I won't be schemed out. I don't look at life from negative perspective; I believe that my journey will end well. I will be candidate of the party and I will step forward to win for the PDP. Even if I don't win, those people who are saying that Fayose will jump are wasting their time. I will not leave PDP, whatever happens.

You have been there before, why do you want to go back? Because I am entitled to it. I was removed at the prime of my time and today I am still viable and willing to assist the people. The responses from my people are still positive; I am still popular.

Owing to the ordeals you went through, hasn't your wife asked you to forget about governorship and enjoy a quiet life? My wife came to Ekiti about a year ago to proclaim that her husband will come back; I don't want anybody to ignore that. My wife's pronouncement will happen. What happened to me in office towards the end of my administration, my wife warned me. She warned me against certain things and certain people that would betray me and it happened. I have started this campaign for some time and she called me and asked whether I really wanted to be governor again and I said yes. She said she was going to pray about it and after her prayer; she went to Ekiti to proclaim it that her husband was coming back and it was reported in the media. That prophesy must happen; when she says it, it happens. My wife is a virtuous woman.

What were you doing specifically before you entered into politics. I don't have to answer that question because events have overtaken it. The question you are asking me should be what to ask me 10 years ago, I am a prominent Nigerian today. This is how I see what you are asking me: A man who was a school certificate holder became a degree holder, then he became a masters degree holder, then a PhD holder and then a professor and you are now asking him what happened before he became a school certificate holder.